Facebook Debate 1 - 03/01/13
I have few questions to ask...
1. Why do most of the people categorize rape as an act of sex instead of an act of violence ? The real problem India faces is not women getting raped, but experiencing all kinds of violent harassment from men, which widely ranges from grope to rape. With this point in mind, how can chemical castration be the solution ?
2. Can chemical castrations stop men from teasing and groping women ? If implemented, the rape crimes will decrease, but is that the real problem ? Isn't there a possibility that after the implementation of this act also, women can be harassed and teased until the point of getting raped, and then will be left out, thus allowing men to be escaped from chemical castration and getting just a few years of imprisonment ?
3. We know that we guys are male chauvinists, and we all want to collectively get cured of that millennium old disease. Now isn't it a foolish thing to castrate those men ? It's fine if they stay at jail, but what will happen if they come out ? Of course I'm not saying that they should be left free, but lets answer this ourselves truthfully, we know that castrating a man will surely cultivate a vendetta against women due to his already male chauvinistic mind, don't we ? Then why ? Won't their deranged mind (Because of us castrating him) urges them to show all their anger against women ? Women can't be raped anymore, fine. But what if they're killed ? What makes people think that castration is better than death penalty ?
4. It's very good that for the past two years youngsters want to actively involve in social issues in a Democratic way, fine, and some are coming out to the streets from facebook and twitter too, very fine. But is their patriotism and social rights rightly channelized ? They wanted to protest, fine, I accept that. But what made them choose places like Rashtrapati Bhavan's entrance and India gate as the protesting venue ?
5. Why did they protest ? To get the government's attention. How that ? By getting media's attention. Very well. Now my question is, did they really think protesting there only will get the media's attention ? Definitely not ! They got the media's attention because of various factors, important among them was that they were never seen such furious and frustrated about the government, and many of them were well educated/ting, in IIT's and BITS's, and were generally considered socially inactive by us. That's the reason ! The sudden uprise of middle class youth was the sensation and not the venue they selected, which was the capital city.
6. Its not about the venue, it's about the determination and relevance of the protest ! Why am I emphasizing these things again and again ? Because, why didn't they choose a quiet, less busy places for protesting ? Don't they know protesting in Delhi will cause a lot of traffic problems ? What those men did was a determined crime, arivu illa avangalukku. What did these protesters do then ? How many ambulances would have caught in the traffic jam ? Even a common man will know that protesting will cause a traffic jam, these people also know that Delhi will be shaken. So my question is, if they still did that apart from knowing all these things, won't the ambulance preventing act too come under determined violence ?
7. They made the entire nation look on this issue, hats off ! But do they deny the fact that protesting in a calm place will also create a national sensation, taking into account of their sudden outrage ?
8. Please enlighten me on this point. Who organised the protest ? The police charged on them without prior notice, I strongly condemn that, but what would've they done if the police were willing to talk ? Who was the representative ? What would they have demanded for them to leave that place ? Or else if the protest was just for condemning the government, they could've chosen a quiet spot elsewhere, couldn't they ?
9. I'm again asking how organised the protest was. How well protected were they really ? What would've happened if some human bomb mingled with the crowd took advantage of the poor organizing ? Seri, you all are the brave protesters and you fear guns and grenades no more, but why putting New Delhi in danger ? Did you ask prior permission from the police department before protesting ?
10. If what they look for is a solution, then didn't they know that protesting will never give a permanent solution ? Ok, what will they do after the protest ? Will they proudly yell "Naanum rowdy naanum rowdy" and forget the issue ? Are they aware of the fact that the permanent solution lies within them ? If they would've thought that good parenting is the only solution, they would never have had the thought of protesting in Delhi. They would've thought about the pros and cons of the protest, wouldn't they ?
11. To those people who ask me to think from the victim's parent side, how painful it'll be for them and all. Yes ! I feel for her, and I'm sometimes ashamed to be regarded as even an Indian male. Ok, did they think from the patients' side who were succumbing in the brink of death inside the ambulance ? Did they think from the servant maids' side who'll get food for the day only if they travel to the houses and work ? Did they think from the men and women's point of view who were caught in between traffic under the scorching sun ? Did they think from the common man's side who travel miles by the Delhi train to go to work ? I'll tell one thing, only the political party goons who breakout violence all over the public places during bandhs don't think of these things ! What's the difference between the two even though the youth had a good reason and a need for protesting ? Cause is good, but arivu illiye ?
12. Do they want a solution ? Let them enter politics, change the often occurring circus sessions of Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha, and clean the so called 'Arasiyal Saakadai'. Let them enter into the administrative line, and become policy makers, and prevent acids being liberally sold in hardware shops. Let them become Police officers and keep the law and order under control. Let them become lawyers and judges and restore justice. Let them become good parents and prevent the male chauvinistic root penetrating into the next generation. Let boys face the competition given by women in all fields. Let them all vote ! Let them all pay their taxes in India ! Let them thank the Indian citizens for paying their fees to study in IIT's and NIT's and let them contribute back ! And then, change will happen and a solution will arrive. It will happen, won't it ?
13. I request them to be emotional inside their houses and among their relatives and friends. But when it becomes a national game changer, think intellectually, yosinga, don't get carried away by your emotions. Don't get carried away by some media sensations. The Government can't take decisions based on emotional pushes. So you are asking me what todo instead ? You become the government ! Youth dhaane neengalaam ? If you think I'm blabbering some rubbish, feel sorry for yourselves to have wasted your time in reading 13 useless points.
14. Apdiye konjam look at other issues too. Ungalukku oru prachna naa odi vareenga, you demand immediate action, and you expect a national sensation to make the government look at you. Inga koodamkulam problem is going on for more that 500 days, east-la Adivasi's are silently protesting against the government, Indian fishermen are brutally manhandled down south, innum evlavo. So please, if you think you are doing a social activist's work, then don't be selfish. Illa, I just came for the victim's justice-na, please, go home, or protest somewhere else, media will come there too. Why do you make the ordinary day-to-day Delhi citizens suffer ? Just because it's them who are affected ? Adhukkum you could've protested somewhere else, in fact, support innum koodirukkum ! This post would've almost become unnecessary too.
15. "Unakku nadandhadhaan idhellaam theriyum, adhaan ipdi dialogue vidra"... Okay, fine. How many in the crowd are fully aware on why they're gathered or what really has to be done ? Don't go out of your mind due to an emotional outbreak, yosinga. If crowd gathering is the intention, sorry, they are deviating from the cause again. I'm again recalling what I said, I don't say a big no for protest, but not in New Delhi, not in the capital city.
16. Enakku egapatta silly doubts, can they enlighten me ?
P.S.: To the girl. Rest in Peace. You will be remembered.
1. What made them choose Rashtrapati bhavan and India gate you ask? Why shouldn't they, I'll ask? Can you show any piece of law which states that these two places shouldn't be centres of protests? Have you seen these places? It is a secluded place which doesn't so much spill on to the roads. If at all, these are some of the best places to protest without causing public inconvenience.
2. Crime happened in capital city, you want them to go somewhere else and protest? Should we book a train for all the protesters? or lets say they go to gurgaon/ old delhi, don't people there have to go to work? Wont ambulances ply there? If at all, the spots the chose were the best, in terms of least public nuisance.
3. Your point number 9 says 'their protest put new delhi in danger' . hahahhaha!! As though the city wasn't dangerous enough already!
What if human bomb mingled with the crowd?? So if they take police permission,are you saying that human bomb will not mingle with the crowd? Where did this bizzare angle of human bomb come into the picture?. Is your point that, people should never protest ever again as there can be a bomb threat?? Or lets say they don't protest but instead are travelling by train, are you telling me that there is no bomb threat?
4. Point 11 is again repetition of point 6, and i've answered that already.
5. Brilliant point. I hope you do realize that people can look at you and say the same thing "quit writing and enter politics".
6. When your daughter gets raped, intellectuality is thrown out of the window. if we're to be governed by intellectual only, we'd rather be robots. Emotions are the boon and bane of being human. When you begin to work you'll realize its not so much of work as much as balancing emotions of everyone around you. And you cant blame them for being emotional, you can only applaud yourself for handling others emotions well and with respect. I do get your point though, that national issues can be solved with more rationality than emotions, that doesn't however apply to common citizens who have the right to express their emotions through protest.
7. Koodankulam project, Indian fisherman!! haha you're blaming the people protesting in Delhi why they aren't taking up this issue? So now people who protest get blamed because there are a thousand more causes to protest yet they chose only one!! Why don't u blame yourself and the people around you, who are aware of this and yet haven't taken out in the streets? Why don't you gather your people and start a protest for the fisherman, rather than sit at home and blame the people who wanted to protest for something that touched their hearts? Who are you criticize them for what stirs their emotions and what doesn't?
8. your point number 15, the icing on the cake! Wow, this is new idea, India is a democratic country where protests can happen everywhere (except Delhi as its the capital city!) haha!!
9. Point 16 is right, this post is silly indeed. this is the most foolish post written by you till date, and i'm not emotionally taking the side of protesters, i'm cringing because how someone i thought was intelligent can get it all so wrong. You have a long way to go.
After posting this I read some more articles related to the protest, some you gave, some I found in the internet, some were the editorials, and one article given to me by my brother. I thought for the whole night. Some points I mentioned above in the note seem incomplete and immature now thanks to you, and some now seem brighter than before. The purpose of writing this note is serving well. I've replied in the order which you followed.
1. There is nothing illegal in protesting before Rashtrapati Bhavan and India gate.
2. I don't understand why a protest has to only take place where crime has happened. Protests like that in Koodamkulam need one as there's no other way, and public nuisance is out of the equation there as the entire public is protesting. But I understand that the Delhi protesters too have their own work to do. Enlighten me whether there are any other ways/venues of protest which create zero public nuisance problem, if you have an idea. I couldn't find one.
3. I should have added the police permission thing as a separate point, it's no way related to the other things I told in that point. Its my mistake to have you misinterpret the point. What I meant to ask was how safe is a protest that's not initiated by a person or group, or a protest whose initiator's whereabouts are unknown as far as I know. If you know something about that, do enlighten me. Also I didn't mean that a bomb blast in Delhi alone will be a big concern and other place are of no interest to me, but what I fear is that the media has sensationalized the protest, and it'll be same media which'll create another sensation for its own sake by reporting that 'Capital under terrorism again, lack of security' sorts of headlines if some unfortunate thing happen. This further will create an emotional outbreak. If you know, can you enlighten me whether there are any other ways to protest as well as preventing these media games ?
4. Nothing to comment.
5. I do.
6. Maybe you're right. I don't have a daughter yet. Citizens do have the right to express their emotions through protest, but as a spectator, as a useless man who just sits in front of the laptop and scribble something, the rest in the third point.
7. I never blamed them for not protesting for other issues around them, just requested them as at least they have the guts to come out and as I don't have. But I have a thing to say. After the protest, if their protests alone are regarded as what social activism is to them, I fear their national interest in wrongly channelized and wasted. Having sitting idle and doing nothing for now, I understand that, whether the protest is right or wrong, I don't have an iota of eligibility to discourage them.
8. I realize now that the protesters need not know everything about why the protest is happening. If it had been the criteria, the Indian freedom movement wouldn't have happened at all. I understand that it's something to do with emotions, rather brains. Do protest, but wouldn't it be advisable to be cautious first on who's organizing before giving importance to the cause of the protest ?
9. I respect your opinion.
All valid points were stated. You know our government will never take any immediate actions until someone complicate the matter. This Delhi case is a typical example.. Why don't u look at the issue in an another angle. Despite protesting in the main areas our government still didn't make any progress. Still they are busy in preparing the charge sheet. I feel the charge sheet is useful only if the accuse gonna face entirely different punishment/ torture. Why should the govt release the accused after chemical castration ? Let him undergo some torture n then hang him to death. So if this is the case there is no place for vengeance .This can give some satisfaction to the affected victim. If the same strike was carried out in some remote place, there wouldn't be any improvement and it will keep going on for days and the govt will be processing the issue for years and the protest will go in vain. The protest is just a small hope to reduce the crime because of stringent punishment. As u said the representative of the protest is a mystery and hence the purpose will be good.
Coming to the practical side, even if the new law was passed it wont be in existence for more than a year. The accuse wont be treated as per d new law. The crime will still carry on probably with a small reduction rate.
//Despite protesting in the main areas// I have already voiced out that protesting somewhere else will create the same (may be even more) national interest towards the issue as protesting in New Delhi.
//Let him undergo some torture and then hang him to death// I don't think the govt. will accept this. I too don't. India isn't a country where people should be tortured and then the national safety should be restored, but people should be nurtured up well from their childhood to get things right. If chemical castration is the punishment for rape, these chauvinistic men will just grope, or kill, appo enna panlaam ? These acts are like pain killers, we should not give overdose. And yeah, after giving the painkiller we must operate, ie, being good parents and bring up our children well, verum pain killer too will bring side effects.
//This can give some satisfaction to the affected victim// My words may seem very cold to you, but sorry, the government is not there to satisfy the emotions of the victims, if a theoretical government failed to protect, it will look at the victim for seconds, say sorry, and will just move on to make sure no one else is affected. I'm not supporting the govt. or trying to dilute the protest, but what that point seemed to me was just a mega serial dialogue out of sure pure emotional outbreak kindled by the media or whatsoever.
//Representative is a mystery// Really ? That's dangerous ! So everyone gathered there because some X called them ? Yosikka venaama. What would they have done if the police wanted to talk to the representatives ? Did they expect their leader to come out of nowhere and then dramatically stand in front of the police ?
//Purpose will be good// Indha Gentleman, Indian things and all never work... I advise the representative to stop watching Shankar films and come out.
Chemical castration may not be the solution for rape. It was thought of in the spur of the moment, born of rage. Capital punishment would be better, I agree.
But, chemical castration may be the solution for a different problem. Imagine these men (and most men who rape) having kids. (You needn't really imagine. They probably already do.) With what moral values are these children being brought up? I believe it would be in the nation's best interest to see to it that these immoral men do not leave more of their kind to follow in their foot steps. Giving them a second chance is bullshit.
I don't think India has gone up to a level beyond which only fear of law and stringent punishments can guide the citizens to be good. A son can only learn from his castrated dad that raping is a wrong action, but that won't be a solution. The agenda is to see that the son should never even regard women as someone inferior to men. The thought is where the root is, if we target them, the actions will be stopped eventually. Another hazard of chemical castration is that it may backfire A son of a castrated dad may also be subjected to the growth of vengeance against women, as the male chauvinistic root is very strongly adhered to men's brain for centuries. It can only be removed by nurturing the kids well.
The 17 year old in the Delhi incident,who was also a part of the prime accused ,can walk out free in few months due to juvenile system.. India is paving way to young criminals.. if we criticize Indian constituent laws we can get arrested.. but the same thin has so many loopholes in it.. The decision on this boy will decide the future, of young terrorists and criminals ! R.I.P dharma.
I think I slightly differ here. The court decides the level of punishment based on the level of crime, but while proving someone guilty, it doesn't consider the crime, but motive and background. It may seem silly that a 17 year old can commit any crime and escape, but do the same thing again next year, gets capital punishment. By law, until becoming 18, the acts done by the accused won't make him 'solely' responsible, hence the same level of punishment that's given to the other men, can't be given to him. At the same time, the law doesn't consider a minor to be someone who doesn't deserve to live either. Sealing this 'loophole' as you call, isn't that easy because there are some practical problems behind, main among them below:
There is no scale to determine when human beings really mature mentally. Our Indian Constitution has subjectively declared that as 18. If this boy gets the capital punishment, it will suggest that the boy was fully aware on what he did(Of course I agree he was fully aware, thanks to the male chauvinistic Indian society and TV channels). If the court decide that he was fully aware, then it also imply that he was matured enough. If that's the case, the major-minor line will be legally shaken. Any minor boy/girl can legally claim that if a minor boy can be declared matured and given capital punishment, even he/she can get the driving license/voting rights/marry/open a major bank account/get a credit card, etc... I don't think the decision on this boy will decide the future of young terrorism in India. Then what ? The words inside the brackets, TV and Indian society, it's their future that decides the future of young terrorists and criminals.
Thus whether the boy deserve to be free or not, the law doesn't consider his crime to be huge, only, one and only because of his age. I don't call this as a loophole, because the solution is outside pure law. It's in the society's hands, within you and me, and him and her :-)